Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Is a "long gun" non-opitmal?
Is a shotgun "too strong and loud"?
Is an AK "penetrating"?
I think that SWAT teams use a mixture of 9mm autos and shotguns for inside building operations, but, I am talking about a civilian in home defence planning.
Be well.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Pistol...easy to wield in tight places. 9mm or larger.

Shotgun...short 20 gauge/#3 buck is more than adequate for inside the home.

Rifle...L.E. uses .223 for a Tactical Entry Rifle...AR-15 or Mini-14 or even Saiga would be quite effective if a little loud (you wouldn't notice much in an emergency).

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

What weapon is this in the famous Elien Gonzalez photo?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Inselian.jpg

Be well.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

HK MP-5 9mm carbine or a variant. Some agencies may still use them but the majority have converted to .223 due to (believe it or not) less chance of over-penetration than pistol rounds.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Depends on how much you can afford to spend. If money is no object get one of the tactical shotguns.

If you're pretty broke like me buy a used long barrel Mossberg 500 for $125.

It'll get the job done in case of a home break in.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

That was my thought, a shotgun, short legal length, but I read that it is too loud and big for inside a home. I assume that SWAT does use shotguns, and, that they are often used successfully in real life defence situations.
(But I have read few facts or even anectodal stories.)
Be well.

PS I have a 0.357 now, but, am thinking of buying another type of weapon.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Quoted for truth.

Pistol ............concealment protection.

Shotgun.........Powerful and wide range protection.

Rifle...............Long range protection.

All three.........BEST PROTECTION



T

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

A shotgun is ok for outside the home or if you're going to barricade yourself in a room.

But you'll encounter a lot of potential problems trying to clear a house or move around inside with a long gun.

When you enter a room or pass through a doorway you must either put the barrel down or up, this means you are unable to shoot at a perp.

If you leave the barrel straight ahead the perp can grab the barrel.

This is why a handgun is best to clear a house.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Mossberg 500 12GA Pump. This should do the job. Short barrel and no stock should make it easier to maneuver in the house.:wink:

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Makes sense, but, does SWAT agree?
Maybe SWAT doctrine is: let him grab the barrel of the 223 or Mossberg, it will keep the perp busy while Officer #2 and 3 move forward??
Be well

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

All I know is, if I entered someone's home and heard a shotgun racking a round in, I'd be leaving quickly! The thought of being hit by 9-00 pellets, or a wall of #3, or #4 magnum shot, doesn't appeal to me at all!

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

My personal preference is to have one of each:

1) Semi-auto handgun with high cap mag (I have a Smith and Wesson 40 S&W with 14 round mag) for use if you are facing multiple perps
2) Wheel gun - reliable, I have a Ruger SP101 5-shot .357 Magnum
3) 12-gauge shotgun, next on my to buy list is a Mossberg 500 persuader/cruiser model (I love the look and feel of it, plus it seems to have a very good reputation and is affordable at $299)

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

But you may not be able to hit anything with it. Shotguns do need to be pointed if not aimed, and the ones without shoulder stocks make that very difficult. Recoil recovery is also a huge issue without the shoulder stock.

If barrel length is that much of an issue for you, go for a SBS which is what many of the SWAT entry teams use.

I still use my 18" 870P with no issues.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

If you hear a window break in your home at night,which will be in your hand if you go to check it out?
Be well.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Of course, it also broadcasts your location.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Any weapon used properly is an effective defense...

The key is to get the weapon in your hand by the time they breach the door...

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Rifle up stairs...

Shotgun main floor...

Hand gun basement and garage...

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Not always. I purchased an 870V model.

The V stands for "ventriloquist".

:452::signs14:

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Yeah, but if you're in someone else's home, your already at a disadvantage due to the unfamiliar surroundings, now you know that they are armed AND they know YOU are there. Time to cut your losses if you are a criminal, move on to easier pickins.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

The S&W 40 is in my nightstand loaded and ready to go on a moments notice. The 357 Mag is in my office, and alot of times I stay up until 1am working so if it happens while I am up, that would be the first weapon of choice (although I would quickly wake the g/f up and tell her to grab the S&W).

Once I get the Mossberg, I will carry that first (hoping the sound of the pump action will scare them off), with either the S&W or 357 at my side as well.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Except the criminal doesn't know if it's a warning, or if you are about to shoot him.

Also, look up "escalation of force" sometime.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

If you are using a pump shotgun as your primary home defense gun, and you rack the slide as a warning to the bad guy, you just did one of two things:
1) ejected a live round onto the floor, leaving you with one less in your gun, or
2) have been leaving your home defense gun with an EMPTY CHAMBER until someone breaks in, again leaving you with one less round in your gun.
Both are mistakes when your life may be on the line.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Point taken as valid. However, if the possibilty of accidental discharge is perceived to be greater than the possibilty of a break-in, it may seem like a better idea to go ahead and leave the chamber empty until you need it.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

At that moment, why should one care what the intruder thinks? He's either going to turn tail, or not, in which case he's probably going to regret it.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Do you store your pump shotgun unlocked, loaded, and, cocked?
What is the spring half-life?
The safety is on, I presume...
Be well.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

I have always wondered....what would happen if you fired a 12 GA indoors with no ear protection?

I imagine you would go deaf, but I have no experience or background.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

It doesn't apply in case of a home break-in. At least in semi-fee States.

Look up "Castle Doctrine" sometime.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

12 gauge pump as primary home defense weapon, hands-down.

Too strong - absolutely not - one shot kill, just what you need.

Too loud - well, yeah, but if you ever have to fire it, your hearing will return in a couple hours, and your family will still be alive.

Handguns and rifles are never primary for home defense; more expensive to shoot, much more training required, variable reliability.

Get a Mossberg 500 series or Remington 870 series (or both!) and then "graduate" to a handgun once you're comfortable with the primary weapon. The handgun is good for instant readiness - even more so than having a loaded 12 near your bed. Both are best, but if one must be chosen, grab the 12.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Which is why professional tactical teams choose carbines/short rifles or shotguns, right?

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

You need to tell the SOB that "I have a gun, I will use it, get the hell out of here!" since diffusing the situation without gunfire is always the smartest strategy. Racking while shouting increases the volume & weight of your statement ten-fold.

"Lying in wait" for the thug is stupid, since it shows you want a gunfight.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Our 12s are unlocked on a wall rack, loaded each with three Federal 00 buck (to save the springs), with a "valu-pak" of buck and slugs on the buttstock shell holder for quick reload. This is "alert status 1." Higher alert statuses, such as attempted break-ins in the neighborhood or a natural disaster with consequent public disorder result in increasing alert status and increased readiness of the firearms (full-loads in the tubes, moved to right where we are, and chambered if maximum readiness is called for).

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

The likelihood of ND/AD is far higher than not having enough shells if some SOB breaks in. Keeping one in the chamber invites that "I'll never do that" trigger pull or the "one in a million" accidental drop with subsequent BOOM. Three rounds in the tube should handle any reasonably foreseeable home invasion scenario if you have even minimal training, and with a buttstock or side saddle shell holder, you're seconds away from even more ammo.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Actually, the loudest is the .223 tactical rifle, followed by the 9mm pistol, then the 12 gauge...been there, done that...don't ask.

Carpeting, drapes, sofa, and other furniture tend to help muffle the blast...

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

When the time comes to explain myself.

THERE WILL ONLY BE ONE VERSION OF EVENTS.

T

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Um, yeah, the version that the police and crime scene guys determine happened from the evidence at the scene.

This is why it's important to take a class in the lethal use of force, when you can legally do it, etc. It's a lot cheaper than a lawyer.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Which penetrates ballistic armor better?
9 mm or .223?
Sounds strange to say that 0.223 is less penetrating...
But maybe it is, in the case of plaster walls...
Be well.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

I am convinced that people who recommend pistol grip 12 guage shotguns have never shot one.

Cool factor = +1
Usability = -5

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

The .223 has a lighter bullet that is more easily deflected from its original path of flight than a 9mm bullet weighing twice as much. Nonetheless, the .223 bullet will penetrate body armor more readily due to it's much higher velocity and smaller frontal area (point).

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

One of Gabe Suarez's sayings in teaching "serious interpersonal problem solving" is ONE STORY...END OF STORY.

By this, he's proposing that in a lethal force encounter, you ensure your own safety by shooting the opponent(s) to the ground. Ammo is cheap - be generous! In doing so, you minimize the chances of having to deal with civil court (& perhaps some criminal court) aftermath of a righteous shoot.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Deflected?
Why would they prefer a bullet that "deflects" more after penetrating a thin wall?
Maybe increased penetration of body armor clad "suspects" is the reason SWAT favors 0.223 over 9 mm, not decreased wall penetration...
(I realize that 9 mm can "penetrate" a suspect's body also, but, I have heard that about 0.223 also...)
Be well.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Police don't want OVERPENETRATION. Shooting through walls and killing innocent bystanders in the next room is very bad form...not to mention the potential lawsuits. Deflection is good in this case. The 223 with light bullet tends to fragment more easily, shedding energy quickly once it hits something solid like drywall, 2x4 studs, etc. But, it is capable of penetrating body armor and soft tissue to a depth of 6-12 inches or so and will KILL or serious wound the recipient...

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Here's my remington 870 with the surefire weapon light forend.

First illuminate then extinguish.

http://goldismoney.info/forums/pictu...&pictureid=281

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

you just have to be strong enough. some people are and some aren't.:coolbeer:

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Agreed. I bought a Hogue for my Mossberg 590. I put the stock back on after a test run at the range.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Strength is not the issue.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Control is the issue. I prefer a short buttstock which I can tuck under my arm to a pistol grip.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

I'll take Massad Ayoob over Suarez.

By the way, I am not a lawyer, but I'd say it's not a great idea to publicly state on a message board that you intend to shoot, not to stop, but to kill. All it takes is some anti-gun DA seeing that and reading it to a jury, and justifiable homicide becomes murder.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

http://www.mossberg.com/images/products/930/85360.jpg



If you can find one PM me as I've been looking myself. And by "find one" I don't mean the ones being sold on Gunbroker at exorbitant prices :wink:

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

After I shot my mossberg 500 persuader/cruiser with the pistol grip I switched it over to a 6 position collapsible stock from pro-mag. I have a bit of wear in my wrist joint from shooting the redhawk too much in my younger days! Much more managable this way.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Yea, I kinda wonder if anyone who thinks that a rifle is a good idea,,, has ever fired one indoors. You get that dust and little bits of plaster falling off the ceiling.....

The only way I would see having a rifle would be if I lived somewhere that there were large predatory animals (the four-legged kind, like bears or pumas). If I lived in Alaska I'd probably keep a Springfield M-1 by the bed.

As it is, I'm okay with pistols for home-defense. It's easy to aim and being a one-handed weapon is nice when you need to use your other hand to hold a flashlight, open a door or dial the police.

------

What a SWAT team would use doesn't matter to the subject much.
A SWAT team gets to plan the time of their offensive attack, and they are more than one person. That's two big advantages that a single person defending their home alone doesn't have--and pretending you will is silly.

"SWAT" or "military" weapons will not give you the same capabilities as an organized, trained SWAT or military team.


-end-

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Leave the slide open and slighly forward with the balance of the shells loaded. Have a spare shell handy, hand load and "half rack" the slide closed with that shell. No loss of ammo,"half" a warning for the bad guy.

Of course if I get to that point, someone's getting shot regardless.:coolbeer:

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

That's was my thought too. Never shot the pistol grip, not sure I want to in a self defense capacity either.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

It is highly unreasonable to compare SWAT team actions to just about anyone here or any situation they might encounter.

[1] you don't have the training
[2] you don't have 8 other guys covering your back
[3] this isn't your 20th armed confrontation with a perp
[4] you are not wearing a badge
[5] you are not Rambo

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

I had a pistol grip on my Winchester 1300 as well. Way too wild with that setup. Now I have the AR-15 type pistol grip stock, which is perfect I think.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

[QUOTE=Twisted Avatar;1569805]Quoted for truth.

Pistol ............concealment protection. do NOT forget the ammo

Shotgun.........Powerful and wide range protection. do NOT forget the ammo

Rifle...............Long range protection. do NOT forget the ammo

All three.........BEST PROTECTION I repeat do NOT forget the ammo



T[/QUOTE

Always remember and never forget ..do NOT forget the ammo

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

http://theboxotruth.com/

"Once again, please notice the size of the entrance spreads....2 1/2" to 3 1/2". Therefore, anyone that says, "With a shotgun, you don't even have to aim. Just point it in the general area of the bad guy, and you can't miss", does not know what they are talking about. You can very easily miss with a shotgun. You must aim to hit your target."

"I "racked" the shotgun several times during the tests, and no bystanders lost control of their bowels. Conclusion: Racking a shotgun will not make the bad guy faint."

Unknown sources:
"I don't expect a fire either, but I have fire extinguishers in my house and they are all loaded."

"Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six."

"Yeah, the noise hurts my ears. But the alternative is worse."

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Indeed...though the "ideal" is when "stop = dead."

If your good shots put the SOB on the ground, and he's staying on the ground, you best not shoot some more. A few seconds of vengeance will result in a lifetime of hurt - your lifetime.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Correct...but when you have 8 or 9 pellets (or more) heading his way, you can be a little off and still be on target.


Only an idiot would assume that that apple scenario (gun owners at a gun range) is the equivalent of the orange scenario (of a real, live home invasion).

But making the home invading SOB fill his shorts is NOT the objective - the objective is to get the SOB to leave and look for easier pickin' fruit somewhere else.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Umm, depending on the state you are in...........

If you come in my house illegally, my state law says that my life is ASSUMED to be in danger, and deadly force can be used. I guess this is the castle doctrine that everyone talks about. This law was changed in July of 2007 for my state. Now, we don't have to prove that our life was in danger, because the law states it is. Even if they are unarmed, deadly force is legal.

To keep it on target, I keep a Glock 23 with a tac light, and a 15 round glock 22 magazine loaded and ready to go. Of course, I also have a S&W 642 for the wife because it shoots every time you pull the trigger, and a remington 870.

For the 870 comments about racking it, many large police departments train to keep it in "loader safe" or whatever you want to call it. It is with the shells in the tube, chamber empty, and safety on. Racking the slide is encouraged, because it is what usually will end a possible deadly situation or gunfight. Trust me, that rack of an 870 is enough to make the tail go between the legs, and I have seen it first hand on some thugs that were out robbing people one night. If you train to rack the slide and get a shell in the chamber, you will do it without even thinking about it. This is how I keep my 870 as well. All the handguns are loaded and ready to simply pull the trigger, but the shotty and AR have to be chambered.

And I agree with TA, there will only be ONE side of the story. You don't shoot one or two shots. You shoot until it cathes fire or the threat is gone. One or two shots from a pistol is not really likely to stop a threat with adrenaline pumping, they are still a threat.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

when I was a kid every one I knew had a scatter gun over the front door hanging on two nails.
the dogs start barking you go to the front door and pull down the shot gun to see what is going on.
their was a time when Dad put more nails up above different door ways
I still remember asking him if we was going to hang something over the bathroom door, he said no, to damp from the washer and the tub, would need to much oiling.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

That's funny!

The whole "guns must be locked and unloaded, and ammunition must be locked up, separately from the gun" is an INSANE practice, that renders the firearms useless for their purpose.

Gun locks don't stop curious children. Training and responsible exposure stop curious children. My kids want to see my guns? I bring them out, unload/safety check them in the textbook manner in front of them, and let them handle them (responsibly). They also get to fire them when we go up the mountain. Further, if a thug gets in my home, and takes me down before I can do something about him, I'd rather my kid have access for a fighting chance to do what I could not.

Fear of guns is a psychological disorder.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

guess it is time to start driving nails...

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Twisted Avatar: http://www.truecrypt.org/

If you are ever forced to utilize lethal force: your posts on this forum will hang you in a half hour of jury deliberation.

You need to utilize full disk encryption and make sure that a search of your house never leads investigators to your posts on this forum. Confiscating computers is virtually a standard practice of police investigations these days.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Exactly my philosophy. My Mossberg 12-ga sits ready with four rounds of 00-Buck in the feeder tube and the chamber empty, to ensure none of our kids accidentially finds and discharges it. Should there be a break-in, I want to be able to rapidly (and loudly) rack that first shell into the chamber --- hopefully scaring the criminal out of our house before I need to pull the trigger.

The Springfield XD .45 ACP with 13 rounds will be in my back pocket, in case I need to empty the Mossberg.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Noisey dog, barking works, then racking the shotgun usually lets the bad guy know supprise is lost.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

we did not have a pump hanging over our front door on nails, it was an old double barrel with the external hammers.
Dad said their was always burying with a shot gun
got to agree with him, the older I get the smarter he was.
Talked with him today, he reminded me to ever stop fighting for what is right.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Nice pistol grip to stop the wrist problems.

Link
http://images.cabelas.com/is/image/c...?$main-Medium$

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Big 5 has the Mossberg 590 on sale this week. $359.....

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

How about a pistol that shoots .410 shells?

http://www.taurususa.com/video/tauru...udge-video.cfm

:36_1_34:

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Taurus International..."You Be The Judge"

The jury and the executioner too.....lol.

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

I always thought those pistol grip Mossberg types were to be fired from the waist?

Re: Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?
 

Shotgun for Inside Home Defence?


Home Defense??????

Much good info on the firearm side-BUT-


Money as well spent on hardening the home.
Fence, dog, hardened doors, hardened windows, "entanglement and entrapment " defences, blinding spot lights, etc......
A well thought out "layered" hardening, (and softening- to guide them to the "easy" way in) should discourage any intruder before he gets near any house entry points.
Be creative-eg; (my favorite I admit)-500 yards of cheap 50 lb test fish line with hooks every 2-4 ft around window or property line bushes and window shrubs will entangle and stop the intruder.
Non-lethal layering, alarms, then your last option should be firearms.